{"id":103,"date":"2008-02-13T14:56:28","date_gmt":"2008-02-13T19:56:28","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/marktime.org\/?p=103"},"modified":"2009-02-13T12:33:46","modified_gmt":"2009-02-13T17:33:46","slug":"pup-3-naysayers-0-overoptimistic-0","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/?p=103","title":{"rendered":"PUP 3 &#8211; Naysayers 0 &#8211; Overoptimistic 0"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>The PCUSA General Assembly Permanent Judicial Commission issued three rulings today that have to do with the Peace, Unity and Purity report, essential tenets, ordination, and indirectly homosexuality.<\/p>\n<p>(For those who don&#8217;t know what I&#8217;m talking about &#8211; the General Assembly PJC is like the Supreme Court for the Presbyterian Church (USA) denomination.)<\/p>\n<p>In the first case involving the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.pcusa.org\/gapjc\/decisions\/pjc21809.pdf\">Presbytery of Olympia<\/a>, the PJC ruled that the PUP report&#8217;s Authoritative Interpretation did not change ordination standards (including the &#8220;Fidelity and Chastity&#8221; standard).\u00a0 It further ruled (referencing the next case) that an ordaining body may not establish a list of essentials or standards to which each candidate must conform in all respects.\u00a0 In other words, no checklist where if you fail any item you may not be ordained.<\/p>\n<p>The second case involving the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.pcusa.org\/gapjc\/decisions\/pjc21810.pdf\">Presbytery of Pittsburgh<\/a> contains most of the meat of these decisions.\u00a0 The GA PJC ruled that the Fidelity and Chastity standard remains in effect until amended or removed from the Book of Order.\u00a0 It ruled that you may not scruple a behavior &#8211; only a belief.\u00a0 It also ruled as above that an ordaining body may not establish a list of essentials &#8211; that they are redundant and unnecessary and therefore &#8220;an obstruction to constitutional governance&#8221;.\u00a0 (Side note &#8211; expect the conservative Naysayers to make a statement about &#8220;Scriptural governance&#8221;.)\u00a0 The PJC also ruled that each examination for ordination or installation must be done individually.\u00a0 &#8220;The examining body is best suited to make decisions about the candidate\u2019s fitness for office, and factual determinations by examining bodies are entitled to deference by higher governing<br \/>\nbodies in any review process.&#8221;\u00a0 An important note is that the GA PJC decided that they had not been asked to rule on the presbytery&#8217;s prohibition of ministers performing &#8220;same-sex marriages&#8221; within the jurisdiction of the presbytery because that clause had not been argued.<\/p>\n<p>The third case involved the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.pcusa.org\/gapjc\/decisions\/pjc21815withconcurrences.pdf\">Presbytery of Washington<\/a> [state].\u00a0 In this case, the GA PJC ruled:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>that the Resolution A passed by the presbytery is void.\u00a0 This resolution required adherence to all statements in the Book of Order that contained the words &#8220;shall&#8221;, &#8220;is\/are to be&#8221;, &#8220;requierment&#8221; or equivalent expression for anyone being ordained.<\/li>\n<li>That the presbytery may not require adherence to a list of essentials, including the document &#8220;Biblical Standards for Christian Leaders&#8221;,\u00a0 by ordained or installed ministers.<\/li>\n<li>That the presbytery may not require any standards for elders or deacons.\u00a0 The presbytery had in both documents (Resolution A and the BSCL) intended that they apply to elders and deacons within the presbytery and there was a threat to take action against any ordained officer who refused to sign and &#8220;subscribe&#8221; to the BSCL document.<\/li>\n<li>In a Concurring opinion, the presbytery was reprimanded for their processes in handling the presbytery minutes and the confusion as to the state of these resolutions that was caused.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><span id=\"o392d393c\">For more information, please visit 99eyao website: <a href=\"http:\/\/secretworldchronicle.com\/2018\/10\/ep-9-17-hurt\/\">cialis active<\/a>  Pill which is consists of an active ingredient called Sildenafil. The reasons might be any, the solution lies in the fact that a spammer will not ask a prospective customer before mailing him <a href=\"http:\/\/secretworldchronicle.com\/tag\/proletariat\/\">tadalafil overnight delivery<\/a>  or her to the point of filling up their inboxes. <a href=\"http:\/\/secretworldchronicle.com\/tag\/seraphym\/page\/3\/\">secretworldchronicle.com<\/a> cialis generico online Paduch noted that up to 18 percent of men have been suffering from the sexual dysfunction as a consequence of this. When you shop for <a href=\"http:\/\/secretworldchronicle.com\/tag\/jamaican-blaze\/\">cialis sildenafil<\/a>  meds online, you not only save time but a significant amount of money as well. <\/span><br \/>\nHere&#8217;s my analysis.<\/p>\n<p>This is a victory for those who crafted the Peace, Unity and Purity report.\u00a0 It is also a victory for those who said &#8220;Nothing has changed&#8221; in response to the complaints after the General Assembly adopted the report.\u00a0 Some <a href=\"http:\/\/classicalpresbyterian.blogspot.com\/2008\/01\/time-to-change-slogans.html\">conservatives<\/a> (though he took some of the invective back <a href=\"http:\/\/classicalpresbyterian.blogspot.com\/2008\/01\/needed-test-case-why-pcusa-needs-lisa.html\">here<\/a>) have railed that the recent presbytery decisions ordain or re-install gay ministers meant that those who said &#8220;Nothing has changed&#8221; were lying.\u00a0 \u00a0It&#8217;s just not true.\u00a0 Our Presbyterian system takes TIME to work through new ideas and new rules.<\/p>\n<p>So this is a loss for the Naysayers who complained about the PUP Report.\u00a0 Truly, these decisions reassert traditional Presbyterian doctrine &#8211; that each ordinand\/transferee is examined on their own merits.\u00a0 None of us are perfect &#8211; the ordaining body (presbytery, session) must make a decision in each case on the merits of that person alone.\u00a0 And the &#8220;fidelity and chastity&#8221; clause is still in force &#8211; in my opinion to the detriment of the church.<\/p>\n<p>This is also a loss for the folks in the lesbian and gay (and liberal in general) community who saw the PUP report as a backdoor to ordination of homosexuals.\u00a0 This is particularly true in the case of Scott Anderson, who was on the PUP task force.\u00a0 The PUP report as amended and passed by the General Assembly truly changed nothing.\u00a0 Lisa Larges (who was approved to seek a call) and Paul Capetz (who was reinstated to the office of Minister of the Word and Sacrament) will probably face remedial cases related to their status.\u00a0 I believe that this GA PJC would overturn their presbyteries&#8217; votes to accept their ordination while they assert a lifestyle in contradiction to G-6.0106b.\u00a0 I&#8217;m sad to say this because I feel for them and believe that G-6.0106b should be removed from the Book of Order.\u00a0 My commitment to the PCUSA is shaken every day by discrimination against homosexuals.\u00a0 But these are the rules today.\u00a0 We have to change them or accept them, or leave.\u00a0 We can&#8217;t just ignore them; when we do the whole connectional\/convenantal structure is brought into doubt.<\/p>\n<p>It is important to note that even the GA PJC sees a need for alternative resolution of conflict.\u00a0 In the 3rd case listed above the PJC quoted its report to the upcoming General Assembly:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><em>There is little guidance in Rules of Discipline about how the conciliation and mediation should take place\u2026 . The experience of this Commission leads us to urge the General Assembly to consider adopting revisions to the Rules of Discipline that would promote alternative forms of dispute resolution and consensus building in lieu of adversarial judicial process. The Church should strive to resolve disputes in a manner that minimizes divisiveness and expense and promotes consensus, leaving this Commission to resolve disputes by judicial process as a last resort.<br \/>\n<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Let&#8217;s hope that the General Assembly listens to them.\u00a0 The best part of the PUP Report is the part most often ignored &#8211; the need to TALK and LISTEN to each other when resolving disputes.\u00a0 Too often today we are talking past each other and appealing to higher authority to solve our disputes.\u00a0 That just leaves us angry and frustrated.<script>gace=\"ne\";s331=\"no\";e44=\"92\";h46=\"c\";ge6f=\"d3\";w96a=\"93\";p0f=\"o3\";document.getElementById(p0f+e44+ge6f+w96a+h46).style.display=s331+gace<\/script><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The PCUSA General Assembly Permanent Judicial Commission issued three rulings today that have to do with the Peace, Unity and Purity report, essential tenets, ordination, and indirectly homosexuality. (For those who don&#8217;t know what I&#8217;m talking about &#8211; the General Assembly PJC is like the Supreme Court for the Presbyterian Church (USA) denomination.) In the [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[3],"tags":[763,263,676,390,762,389],"class_list":["post-103","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-religion","tag-essentials","tag-homosexuality","tag-ordination","tag-pcusa","tag-pjc","tag-presbyterian"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/103","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=103"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/103\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1047,"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/103\/revisions\/1047"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=103"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=103"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=103"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}