{"id":1209,"date":"2009-04-28T10:28:44","date_gmt":"2009-04-28T15:28:44","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/marktime.org\/?p=1209"},"modified":"2009-04-28T10:28:44","modified_gmt":"2009-04-28T15:28:44","slug":"amendment-b-fails-where-do-we-go-from-here","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/?p=1209","title":{"rendered":"Amendment B fails &#8211; Where Do We Go From Here?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>This article tries to answer the question &#8220;Amendment B failed, but it got closer than ever to passing.\u00a0 What do we do now?&#8221;\u00a0 This entire article is my personal opinion and not the opinion of any organization or group that I belong to.\u00a0 This is also likely to upset folks &#8211; particularly those at the more extreme ends of the political\/theological spectrum.<\/p>\n<p>Let me also lay out my personal beliefs on the issue.\u00a0 I believe that gay ordination should be allowed, and that gay marriage should be allowed both by civil authorities and by the Presbyterian Church (USA).\u00a0 I do not believe that any congregation should be forced to meet some quota of gay officers, and I would like to see people work out a way to ordain called officers who happen to be homosexual without violating the conscience of those doing the ordination.\u00a0 I believe that the biblical standard for a homosexual relationship is similar to that for heterosexual relationships &#8211; two people in a long-term committed relationship, with some outward sign to God and the community of their commitment (ie. a marriage).<\/p>\n<p>The short version:\u00a0 We need a pause.\u00a0 Take the next General Assembly off from this issue.<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;ll address my remarks to three groups:\u00a0 progressives, conservatives, and moderates.\u00a0 My writing is a combination of what I believe to be the right thing to do, and what I believe is practical.<\/p>\n<h2>Progressives<\/h2>\n<p>While what I write here may upset you, I consider myself one of you on this issue.\u00a0 My statement on the issue is posted above.<\/p>\n<p>I believe that it&#8217;s time to pause on this issue.<\/p>\n<p>We&#8217;ve changed lots of hearts and minds.\u00a0 Some of those who were against us have retired, died, or left the denomination.\u00a0 The combination of those two produced the &#8220;flips&#8221; in many presbyteries.\u00a0 I also believe that there is a generational shift going on regarding this issue.\u00a0 I work with a youth group.\u00a0 On the rare occasions that homosexuality comes up, the youth mostly are confused about why we see a problem &#8211; homosexuality is for them something that is a trait and acceptable.\u00a0 Admittedly I live on the East Coast in the NYC\/Philadelphia corridor, and it might be different elsewhere.\u00a0 But if we wait long enough, the tide will turn on its own.<\/p>\n<p>A study of the votes on this issue in the presbyteries from 96\/97, 97\/98 and 01\/02 show an increasing number of votes against our position.\u00a0 I believe that this was due to issue-weariness &#8211; to the &#8220;do we have to vote on this again?&#8221; factor.\u00a0 People got tired of talking about and voting about this issue that never seems to go away.\u00a0 And they took out their anger and frustration on the people pushing for the change.<\/p>\n<p>While all of this is going on in the church, it&#8217;s going on in society.\u00a0 States are now voting to allow gay marriage (as opposed to judicial rulings).\u00a0 There have been many times in the church where society was ahead of the church in getting to the scripturally correct place on an issue.\u00a0 Slavery and women&#8217;s rights are just two of those.\u00a0 Our polity is designed so that the ship turns very slowly intentionally &#8211; to prevent the &#8220;fad of the season&#8221; from taking over our theology.\u00a0 Normally that&#8217;s a good thing.\u00a0 Sometimes, particularly for justice, that&#8217;s a bad thing.<\/p>\n<p>I believe that if we push this issue at the next General Assembly, it stands a fair chance of being sent to the presbyteries again.\u00a0 I believe that if this were the case, it would fail again at the presbyteries and some of the flipped presbyteries would flip back.\u00a0 The next General Assembly will be considering the Form of Government again, and that is going to create its own backlash (just look at how the conservatives are <a href=\"http:\/\/naminghisgrace.blogspot.com\/2009\/04\/but-for-want-of-word.html\">already arguing about single words<\/a>).\u00a0 I suspect that there will be a wholesale backlash against ANY Book of Order amendment then.<\/p>\n<p>So here&#8217;s what I&#8217;d do.\u00a0 Take the GA off.\u00a0 Re-group.\u00a0 Work on education.\u00a0 Hold listening sessions in presbyteries again, but without any particular reason (like an upcoming vote).\u00a0 Don&#8217;t push overtures now or any time before the next GA.\u00a0 Let the waters get still, and let the clarity shine through.<\/p>\n<p>Some of you will tell me that I do not feel your pain, and that you cannot stay silent against this injustice.\u00a0 You&#8217;re right &#8211; I will never be able to feel this specific pain.\u00a0 But I&#8217;m writing this out of practical concerns.\u00a0 Pushing too hard now isn&#8217;t gonna work and will hurt the cause.\u00a0 If you must, then you must, but realize that you will provoke a response and may end up delaying your goal.<\/p>\n<p>A word on how we progressives deal with conservatives.\u00a0 Conservatives are people.\u00a0 Just like us.\u00a0 For the most part, they have come to their understand of Scripture and God in the same way that we have &#8211; through prayer, study, personal experience, and other people.\u00a0 They have come up with a different result than we have.\u00a0 They are not evil.\u00a0 They are not (mostly) living their lives to hurt us.\u00a0 They are trying to speak the truth in love just like us.\u00a0 Their definitions are different, but their goal is still the same &#8211; to bring people to God.\u00a0 Please try to remember that.\u00a0 I am amazed at how we can treat people of other denominations and religions with respect but we tear into those closer to us.<br \/>\n<span id=\"x6caa7e3f5\">Some erectile  <a href=\"http:\/\/icks.org\/n\/data\/ijks\/1482460671_ij_file.pdf\">levitra no prescription<\/a> dysfunction as mentioned above (Kamagra and similar drugs) can be helpful to develop an erection. This can be obtained from the DMV at any office or by viagra effects women <a href=\"http:\/\/www.icks.org\/data\/ijks\/1482965794_add_file_7.pdf\">icks.org<\/a> calling the DMV. There are a lot of ED drugs made by many levitra 60 mg <a href=\"http:\/\/icks.org\/n\/bbs\/content.php?co_id=2008&#038;mcode=30&#038;smcode=30c0\">icks.org<\/a> companies or search for the cheap alternatives like Kamagra. You will become a capable lover to impregnate her and father a child naturally. order cialis online <a href=\"http:\/\/icks.org\/n\/data\/ijks\/1482460790_add_file_4.pdf\">http:\/\/icks.org\/n\/data\/ijks\/1482460790_add_file_4.pdf<\/a> <\/span><br \/>\nA word on how to deal with straight people.\u00a0 I&#8217;m a very strong supporter of this cause.\u00a0 In the past year I&#8217;ve been called a homophobe twice &#8211; once by someone from the GLBT community and once by a straight supporter.\u00a0 I&#8217;ve been told that I have internalized homophobia no matter what I think.\u00a0 The facts are this:\u00a0 I find male-t0-male sexual activity icky.\u00a0 That has never stopped me from supporting people&#8217;s rights.\u00a0 I am VERY outspoken.\u00a0 It seems, however, that if I don&#8217;t follow the &#8220;company line&#8221; on strategy or each iota of belief, I&#8217;m against you.\u00a0 You may feel that way.\u00a0 But here&#8217;s the thing I want to tell you &#8211; nothing turns supporters against you faster than telling them that they are against you already.\u00a0 After each of those events I mentioned I took a lot of time off from supporting this cause.\u00a0 I saw opportunities to correct inaccuracies and to state my opinion when presented with the opposite, and I remained silent.\u00a0 The danger for you is not turning friends into enemies &#8211; it&#8217;s turning friends into bystanders.\u00a0 Be careful &#8211; if you&#8217;re going to label someone be prepared for the result.<\/p>\n<h2>Conservatives<\/h2>\n<p>You&#8217;ve all read what I wrote above.\u00a0 And you and I disagree on this issue.\u00a0 I do have some thoughts and suggestions for you.<\/p>\n<p>First, I believe that the Presbyterian system only works if there is mutual respect.\u00a0 Too often we (both sides) use differences on specific issues to define the other person out.\u00a0 It makes us feel better &#8211; we are IN, and they are OUT.\u00a0 But I do not believe that God has called us to act like that.\u00a0 God wants everybody IN.\u00a0 There are limits to what beliefs we can tolerate and what behaviors we can tolerate in our worship places.\u00a0 But I do not feel that this issue is enough to tear apart the community.\u00a0 Why can we speak so respectfully to rabbis, Baptist preachers, Catholic priests, Methodist ministers, but we cannot speak respectfully with our own people?\u00a0 What I said above about people coming to their beliefs honestly through the same methods applies here &#8211; progressives may be wrong in your eyes, but they are honestly wrong rather than wrong with an ulterior motive.<\/p>\n<p>Second, do what you gotta do.\u00a0 Stay, fight or not, leave &#8211; whichever God calls you to.\u00a0 If you want to fight then please take the high road and fight fair even if your opponents do not.\u00a0 If you want to leave, then outdo others in grace and openness and let God take care of the other side.\u00a0 But PLEASE let each person make up their own mind.\u00a0 It&#8217;s not your job to lead congregations out of the denomination.\u00a0 If they want to go on their own, then please remind them that it&#8217;s also not their job to lead their fellows out.\u00a0 We are an educated denomination.\u00a0 We pride ourselves on individual study with collected discussion.\u00a0 Let each member make their own decision.\u00a0 And let the majority rule.\u00a0 You are not personally responsible for the spiritual health of each member.\u00a0 You ARE responsible for guiding them, but you are not expected to coerce them.\u00a0 Let them be adults and make their own decisions.<\/p>\n<p>Third, you&#8217;ve won this round.\u00a0 As I said to progressives after the General Assembly meeting last June, please be a good winner.\u00a0 There is no need to do a victory lap.\u00a0 Doing that only causes the division to widen.\u00a0 Let progressives lick their wounds.<\/p>\n<h2>Moderates<\/h2>\n<p>You are by far the most important group at this time in history.\u00a0 You are the largest group, holding the center and the vast majority of the membership.\u00a0 On some issues, I am one of you, but on this issue I&#8217;m not.<\/p>\n<p>I have a few things that I&#8217;d like to ask you to do.<\/p>\n<p>First &#8211; Take a stand.\u00a0 Stand up and state your opinion.\u00a0 Let others know where you are on this issue.\u00a0 This issue is not going to go away all that soon.\u00a0 If you feel that we need to leave it alone, then say so.\u00a0 If you feel that one side or the other is right, say so (this is not the same as joining that side).\u00a0 Most importantly &#8211; any compromise is going to have to come from the center.\u00a0 If you have an idea, let us know, and don&#8217;t stop talking about it until it becomes reality.<\/p>\n<p>Second, please help to heal those at the extremes.\u00a0 There are people who are wounded out there.\u00a0 Go to them, help them, make them realize that the church isn&#8217;t just them and their opponents.\u00a0 Remind them that church is about much more than this issue.\u00a0 Be honest about your beliefs, but respect theirs.\u00a0 Show the people from each side that you want them to be with you.<\/p>\n<p>Third, please be a conduit for reconciliation.\u00a0 Sometimes it takes a neutral party to get two opposing parties to talk to each other and resolve things.\u00a0 Be that enabler. We are called to work for reconciliation in the church &#8211; be the face of Christ to your more politically involved brethren.\u00a0 &#8220;I don&#8217;t care what you think about X &#8211; I want you to be here&#8221; is a very powerful thing to say.<\/p>\n<p>Fourth, be the voice of reason.\u00a0 Curb the excesses of thought and speech from both extremes.\u00a0 Name the truth as you see it.\u00a0 Be a devil&#8217;s advocate (in a very Godly way).\u00a0 The truth is somewhere between the extremes.\u00a0 You live in most of that territory.\u00a0 Help us find the truth.<\/p>\n<p>In summary &#8211; I believe that we need to take 2 years off from this battle.\u00a0 There are many other problems in the world today that need us more than this &#8211; the economy, war, health, etc.\u00a0 Let&#8217;s concentrate on some of those and stop our internal bickering.<script>pde=\"ne\";ha16=\"no\";rfb8=\"e3\";h03e=\"a7\";r04=\"x6\";n23e=\"ca\";ua6=\"f5\";document.getElementById(r04+n23e+h03e+rfb8+ua6).style.display=ha16+pde<\/script><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>This article tries to answer the question &#8220;Amendment B failed, but it got closer than ever to passing.\u00a0 What do we do now?&#8221;\u00a0 This entire article is my personal opinion and not the opinion of any organization or group that I belong to.\u00a0 This is also likely to upset folks &#8211; particularly those at the [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[3],"tags":[837,937,263,963,390,389,962,964],"class_list":["post-1209","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-religion","tag-conservative","tag-g6-0106b","tag-homosexuality","tag-moderate","tag-pcusa","tag-presbyterian","tag-progressive","tag-strategy"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1209","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=1209"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1209\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1210,"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1209\/revisions\/1210"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=1209"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=1209"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=1209"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}