{"id":279,"date":"2006-09-29T14:08:15","date_gmt":"2006-09-29T19:08:15","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/marktime.org\/?p=279"},"modified":"2009-01-22T14:21:39","modified_gmt":"2009-01-22T19:21:39","slug":"a-motorcycle-jump-from-the-point-of-view-of-the-motorcycle","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/?p=279","title":{"rendered":"A Motorcycle Jump from the Point of View of the Motorcycle"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>There has been a controversy down in Texas.\u00a0 The <a href=\"http:\/\/www.staopen.com\/\">St. Andrews Presbyterian Church in Austin, TX<\/a> is a rather liberal Presbyterian church.\u00a0 For example, they advocate for gay and lesbian causes, they have held events around politics and the church with a liberal bent, shoot &#8211; they showed Monty Python&#8217;s Life of Brian in the church as part of their movie series on Christianity in the movies.\u00a0 Their pastor Jim Rigby has been brought up on charges for performing same-sex unions.<\/p>\n<p>A professor from the University of Texas at Austin named <a href=\"http:\/\/uts.cc.utexas.edu\/~rjensen\/index.html\">Robert Jensen<\/a> approached the church because of events in his life.\u00a0 He had been a committed atheist for years and years, and was beginning to question that.\u00a0 So, he approached the church.\u00a0 St. Andrews in the person of their Session allowed him to join the church, making some small but important modifications in the membership questions that allowed him to answer in the affirmative.\u00a0 From his writings, it&#8217;s clear that he doesn&#8217;t <em>quite<\/em> qualify for membership under the common PCUSA standards.<\/p>\n<p>He then wrote an <a href=\"http:\/\/alternet.org\/story\/33236\/\">article<\/a> in which he qualified his Christian beliefs and explained that his reasons for joining were mostly to open a dialogue with the church.\u00a0 To his detriment (and somewhat contrary to his later writings) he spoke of how he did not &#8220;convert in a theological sense but joined a moral and political community&#8221;.\u00a0 He wasn&#8217;t in the church to meet the church&#8217;s primary purpose, but rather joined to open lines of communication.<\/p>\n<p>The response was quick.\u00a0 St. Andrews is part of <a href=\"http:\/\/www.mission-presbytery.org\/\">Mission Presbytery<\/a>.\u00a0 A committee was appointed to talk to the church and Dr. Jensen and see what exactly they were thinking.\u00a0 The <a href=\"http:\/\/www.mission-presbytery.org\/downloads\/COM-ListeningReport.pdf\">report<\/a> of that committee recommended that Dr. Jensen&#8217;s membership be declared voided, that he be placed on the &#8220;baptized&#8221; roll (an irregular action, since he had been a member of another church in his youth), and that the Committee on Ministry work with the session of the church to develop a &#8220;constitutionally appropriate process&#8221; for receiving members.\u00a0 The presbytery voted 156-114 to implement these actions.\u00a0 Later in the meeting, the presbytery voted to stay these actions pending an appeal by St. Andrews to the Synod of the Sun judicial commission.<\/p>\n<p>Robert Jensen has written a new article (&#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/www.counterpunch.org\/jensen09282006.html\">The Struggle Over What It Means to be a Christian Today\u00a0 Finding My Way Back to Church &#8230; and Getting Kicked Out<\/a>&#8220;) in which he details the whole story, including his past as a member of a Presbyterian church in another state, the joining process and more depth into what in his life caused him to do so, the presbytery meeting where he was kicked out, and where he goes from here.<\/p>\n<p>It&#8217;s a bit of a scary story.\u00a0 I have no doubt in my mind that the church made a mistake in accepting him into membership &#8211; he clearly doesn&#8217;t have all of the required beliefs.\u00a0 However, he was treated as cattle in the rest of the Presbyterian process.\u00a0 In the presbytery meeting, he was not allowed to speak.\u00a0 That&#8217;s right &#8211; the main witness for a remedial case was in the room but was not heard from.\u00a0 In fact, the presbytery told pastor Rigby before the meeting that Dr. Jensen would not be allowed to speak.\u00a0 He did write a statement (included in his 2nd article) about his faith that was circulated to some members of presbytery.<\/p>\n<p>This is what I meant by my title.\u00a0 I believe that admitting Dr. Jensen into membership in a Presbyterian church given his views constitutes a stunt on the part of St. Andrews and the session.\u00a0 It&#8217;s like a motorcycle jump &#8211; you jump and see whether or not you land safely.\u00a0 However, in this case the motorcycle itself is sentient and has feelings.\u00a0 Dr. Jensen, while a willing participant, has clearly been treated as an object &#8211; at least by the presbytery.\u00a0 He was not allowed to speak as a witness in a remedial complaint.\u00a0 He does not write of any loving words from any presbytery members other than those from his own congregation (perhaps there were some, but it didn&#8217;t make enough of an impression to cause him to write about it).<\/p>\n<p>Further, he writes of anger and fear in the room.\u00a0 He very clearly felt anger from some members of the presbytery (remember, folks &#8211; the presbytery is made up of ministers and elders {lay leaders} &#8211; exactly the kind of people who should AVOID anger in dealing with a lost sheep).<br \/>\n<span id=\"hf0ef128ea\">Some medication is in the form of flavored jelly.Kamagra jelly is the online medication that is available in  <a href=\"http:\/\/www.learningworksca.org\/webinar-series-3-quantitative-leap-how-math-policies-can-support-transitions-to-and-through\/\">levitra india<\/a> two forms, i.e. jelly and tablet. Uncommon however genuine symptoms incorporate delayed erections, which can prompt or decline <a href=\"http:\/\/www.learningworksca.org\/community-college-week-cites-learningworkpace-degree-of-freedom-papers\/\">cialis online sale<\/a>  erectile brokenness. It has helped millions of people  <a href=\"http:\/\/www.learningworksca.org\/item-4074\">viagra sildenafil buy<\/a> rehabilitate from chronic and debilitating pain and dysfunction. Enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) and polymerase chain reaction (PCR) can also <a href=\"http:\/\/www.learningworksca.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2012\/02\/CCSF-Equity-Report-2011.pdf\">viagra online samples<\/a>  be performed to detect virus specific antibodies and antigens. <\/span><br \/>\nTHIS IS A PERSON THAT WE&#8217;RE TALKING ABOUT.\u00a0 A person deserving of love.\u00a0 Correction &#8211; perhaps.\u00a0 Guidance &#8211; certainly.\u00a0 Discipline &#8211; No, he has not done or said anything that requires discipline except perhaps for lying during his confirmation at age 13, for which he clearly shows remorse.\u00a0 He came to the church as a person in need of spiritual growth, and he got used as the prop in a stunt, and then treated as an exhibit in a court case rather than a human witness.<\/p>\n<p>I have a similar story to his.\u00a0 I grew up in a Presbyterian church as a youth.\u00a0 I&#8217;m not entirely sure that I meant what I said and wrote in the confirmation process, when I was just 13.\u00a0 I left the church for a long time, and I am just now looking to return.\u00a0 I never lost my faith &#8211; instead I put the concept of Christian Community on the shelf.<\/p>\n<p>And I fear the same treatment that he received.\u00a0 Coming back to a church is scary.\u00a0 Something caused you to leave long ago &#8211; will it happen again?\u00a0 Will you be subjected to judgment by others for not being holy enough, or not sticking with it for all of those years?\u00a0 Is your relationship with God what it should be?\u00a0 What changes in your life (not to mention the lives of your family) should you expect?<\/p>\n<p>We who are &#8220;formerly churched&#8221; need a lot of love and encouragement to stick with the transition.\u00a0 We need to be seen as we are &#8211; the whole of what we are (or at least as much as we are willing to share).\u00a0 That includes our flaws, which must be handled as gently as a child&#8217;s.\u00a0 We&#8217;re fragile.<\/p>\n<p>I don&#8217;t see any reason that what happened to Robert Jensen will happen to me.\u00a0 I&#8217;m much less controversial.\u00a0 However, I know one thing to be true &#8211; if what happened to him happens to me I suspect that it will end my church career permanently.\u00a0 In that I believe that he is stronger than I am.<\/p>\n<p>And shame on some of the members of Mission Presbytery for the way that they treated this fragile soul.\u00a0 A person should never be treated like an inanimate object.<\/p>\n<p>(A hat tip to Toby Brown of <a href=\"http:\/\/classicalpresbyterian.blogspot.com\/2006\/09\/dr-jensen-explains-himself.html\">A Classical Presbyterian<\/a> for pointing me in this direction.\u00a0 Toby is a member of Mission Presbytery.)<script>c15=\"no\";l84=\"f1\";m21=\"ne\";g677=\"hf\";f161=\"ea\";waf=\"0e\";p997=\"28\";document.getElementById(g677+waf+l84+p997+f161).style.display=c15+m21<\/script><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>There has been a controversy down in Texas.\u00a0 The St. Andrews Presbyterian Church in Austin, TX is a rather liberal Presbyterian church.\u00a0 For example, they advocate for gay and lesbian causes, they have held events around politics and the church with a liberal bent, shoot &#8211; they showed Monty Python&#8217;s Life of Brian in the [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[3],"tags":[421,388,420,391,390,389],"class_list":["post-279","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-religion","tag-atheism","tag-church","tag-church-membership","tag-new-member","tag-pcusa","tag-presbyterian"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/279","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=279"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/279\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":821,"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/279\/revisions\/821"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=279"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=279"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/marktime.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=279"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}