Youth Elder … that was interesting
Today, the Presbyterian Church of Lawrenceville (NJ) held it’s Annual Corporation Meeting and the Special Congregational Meeting. This church holds the annual corporate and congregational meetings at different times and the special meeting in January is normally to approve the terms of call for the pastors and fill any open partial officer terms.
During the Congregational meeting, a change to the bylaws was proposed. The number of elders has previously been set at exactly 15, in 3 even classes. This change was to allow a minimum of 15 and a maximum of 16 elders in nearly equal classes.
The intention of the change was to allow for the first-time election of a youth (under 18 in this case) to the Session.
This was originally brought up back in the fall when the Session and Youth and Young Adult council members talked about it (not the entire group – there is some overlap). The original plan was to create the post of Youth Elder. I did some research on their behalf (since I know a lot about all of this through past personal history and interest) and pointed out that under the Book of Order, there cannot be a position restricted/intended for a certain group. Instead I recommended that they increase the number of seats available and allow for flexibility in the classes.
I knew we were in trouble when the sanctuary was packed for a congregational meeting week worship service. Most of the folks were older. After the service there was a Benediction but no Choral Response or Postlude. Folks were asked to remain. Usually about 1/3 of the folks who attended the service will stay for the congregational meeting. Today almost everybody stayed.
The bylaw amendment was the last item on the agenda of both meetings. At the beginning of the corporation meeting (which was first) the pastor recognized the confirmation class that was attending the meeting as part of their education. He asked them to stand up. Some stood up. Others did not, and a few were in the balcony and not visible. The pastor made a statement about some of them being present.
The bylaw amendment was presented by the nominating committee chair. It was presented as allowing us to have a youth elder, who would be a rising senior [elected in June – someone who would be a senior in the fall] who would serve one year of a 3-year term. If the student remained in the area for college he/she would be able to finish the full term. If not the student would resign just like anyone else who was unable to finish their term and we would likely elect another student to replace them. This youth elder would not be expected to chair a committee (as the other elders are) and would be paired with another elder to serve as a mentor.
The first speaker from the floor asked why we needed an additional seat, and stated that perhaps the nominating committee should have been choosing a youth for Session all along. The answer given was that since we would not expect a youth to be a committee chair, we couldn’t afford to give up an adult seat – we needed all 15 to chair committees.
It was also pointed out that under the Book of Order there is no such thing as a youth elder. I was recognized at one point and read from G-14 where the BOO requires that the congregation elect officers from all ages, racial-ethnic background, disabilities, etc.
The controversy was expressed as a question of why an additional seat was required for most of the 15 minute discussion until one elderly member got up and gave her opinion. She stated that if the Session required the advice of a youth they could simply ask one to come to a meeting, and that elders should be people who have been involved with the church for a long time, have experience with the church, and are more mature. At least 7 or 8 people raised their hands to answer that discriminatory attitude.
A few speakers later, the chair called the question (with support from others). In a voice vote the motion to change the bylaws passed. My estimate is that it was about 66-34 or maybe 60-40. The chair ruled that the motion passed and noone called for division. The meeting was ended with prayer.
After the meeting the woman who was the first speaker was heard to say “we’re voting on a youth elder and they aren’t even HERE!” I think the pastor did the youth a disservice by actually saying that only a few were there. I think that the youth (older than confirmation age) did themselves a disservice by failing to attend worship and this meeting.
One woman who I spoke to after the meeting said that she thought that the argument over 15 vs. 16 seats was really code for whether or not to have a youth elder and particularly for whether or not to change anything.
Even worse, this meeting shows a split in the congregation that my work on Project Open Door has hinted at. There is a core of the congregation for whom you are a new member until you’ve been there 5 years or more. They are also opposed to change of any type. There is an old/young split, and a new/long-time split. I fear for what this means when the Project Open Door team is expected to fulfill our mandate by suggesting changes to the visitor and community ministries of the church.
I’m glad that the vote went in favor of the youth, but also disturbed at the anti-youth sentiment shown by the debate. It seems nothing has changed in some congregations in the last 20 years.
Youth and Homosexuality and the church – jodie’s questions
jodie in the comments on yesterday’s update has posted a lot of questions. They deserve their own post, so I’ll answer them here.
How do the youth in your church view the Evangelical hostility to gay ordination? Is there a generational gap there too, besides the theological one? In my church the youth are flabbergasted that anybody should care. It seems that among college kids and younger, homosexuality just is. There is no scandal in it at all. There is huge support for kids that are gay but don’t get parental support, and if the Church has a problem with gays then it’s because the Church has forgotten what Christ was all about. Not only that, but if someone says that Homosexuality is a sin because the bible says so, then for them that is just proof that the bible is wrong. In other words, the Evangelical war is actually undermining the authority of the Scriptures. Are you guys seeing the same thing?
The answer requires a little background.
First, my church is tending toward the liberal end of the denomination. The town surrounding the church tends to be a bit more liberal as well.
Second, the youth group hasn’t talked about sexuality per se since I started working with them. It was the subject of a retreat last year before I joined them. So I’m working from conjecture.
Third, our youth are not homogenous in their views on sexuality. I know that we have some outspoken proponents of gay rights. I also know that we have some youth that I suspect hold more conservative views on the subject.
We’ll take the questions in the order that my brain spews text. Hopefully I’ll answer all of the questions.
We have one or two youth who participated on their own initiative in the National Day of Silence last year (and will participate this year). I’ll put them at the pro-gay end of the spectrum. We have had a youth who is the daughter of a pair of gay men (who were one of the first civil union couples in the state) – she has graduated now. Several members of the rest of the group talk about generally liberal causes (poverty, environment, the distrubution of wealth throughout the world).
We don’t talk about evangelicals using that name. We do talk about judgmental Christians (the implication being Too judgmental). Our youth group has as part of our covenant that the group is a safe space to talk about things that are important to you without ridicule from other group members. We don’t expect everybody to agree, and we do debate issues sometimes, but in the end we respect and love the person and at worst listen to the idea. The group does speak negatively about those Christians who are unable to love each person – who condemn them and use loaded names and terms for people. Please be clear – when I use the term “we” I mean the youth, the adult advisors, and the paid staff. As a group we only talk about judgmental Christians (we don’t even use a term for them) in passing. It’s not like we spend a night talking about them.
I think you’re right. Gay people are just a fact of life for these youth. They have grown up in an era where prejudice against identifiable groups (even groups attacking our country) is not tolerated. This attitude naturally carries over to homosexuality. These youth recognize that anti-gay speech (up to and often including “homosexuality is against God’s will”) is just not expected. If anybody harbors anti-gay feelings I haven’t seen it openly. Now, this is New Jersey where civil unions are the law of the land and are practically the same legally as marriages. I can see how it would be different in other parts of the country.
Another problem that we are fighting in our youth group is pressure from church members (most often parents of youth who do NOT participate) not to make the church youth group too “churchy”. Our youth director reports that he’s actually had parents tell him that mentioning the Bible too often will drive the youth away from the group. I think that this is true for some youth, but hey! This is church. That’s what we do. We’ve made a conscious decision to up the theological and scriptural content of the youth program one notch and see how it goes. The youth know right from wrong and have a vague sense that it’s the Christian thing to do, but I believe they’d be hard-pressed to link their right actions to our beliefs. We aim to fix that.
Not only that, but if someone says that Homosexuality is a sin because the bible says so, then for them that is just proof that the bible is wrong. In other words, the Evangelical war is actually undermining the authority of the Scriptures.
I repeat that quote because it’s huge. I can’t say if this war is turning youth away from the church or the Bible, but I can speak for myself. It DOES turn me away from the church sometimes. It doesn’t turn me away from God, Christ or the Bible because I understand the concept of interpretation and “Reformed, Always Reforming”. Of course, I have experience with the church above and beyond what our youth have plus a religion minor in college including 50% Christian courses backing my thoughts. They don’t.
Speaking purely of my unchurched and formerly churched friends in their 20’s to 40’s, this legalistic attitude in the church does turn them away. Many of them were previously heavily involved in church but aren’t now – and the judgmental nature of the media image of Christianity (and their own experience with it) keeps them away. They speak of themselves as “still a Christian, but I don’t want to be part of a church”.
It’s also important to realize that Generation X and to a lesser extent Generation Y have an attitude of “waiting for the world to change”. They know that someday the leaders (corporate, church, governmental) will retire and die off and at that point the Gen X and Y folks will be able to make the changes that they see need to be made. There’s a feeling that gay marriage will inevitably be accepted by society and subsequently the church so why worry about it. It’s just a matter of time. In the mean time they go on about their lives without regard to the “outdated” rules.
And the Millenials? They aren’t waiting. They’re just forging ahead with their own rules and their own structure and succeeding. They aren’t waiting for the rules to change – they are going around the obstacles in their path. These are the folks who need to understand why a work assignment needs to be done and how it fits into the larger picture before they’ll lift a finger. The Gen X and Y folks are going to find that they waited too long for control and the Millenials already grabbed it from the Baby Boomers.
And the Millenials don’t understand what the fighting is about. Gay people are gay people – what’s the big deal?
One last note – the youth at my church barely understand what ordination is. We’re working on that – in part by adding a seat to Session intended for one year terms for a youth in high school. But the gay ordination fight isn’t on their radar. It’s not an issue in our church (yes, we’ve ordained openly gay people) and they just aren’t plugged into the news or greater church enough to understand the gay ordination debate. They just see it as more discrimination against a minority group.
So what’s up?
So what’s going on, Mark?
I’m glad you asked.
This week has been eventful.
Earlier in the week, we got the news that the company is looking into some form of ownership change for all or part of the company. I’ve already written about that.
Today we actually got good news. IT has gotten permission to give an allowance to IT employees who are required to be on-call for support issues. The department will pay up to $75 of our home broadband Internet and cell phone charges. For me that means $40 for Internet access. My cell phone usage for work is minimal and always within my plan.
At church I got the Project Open Door meeting scheduled for next week – we’ll be going over inactive members and how to interview them gently. I had a good Sr. High youth evening last Sunday and a great Youth and Young Adult council meeting on Tuesday. The YAYA council actually reduced the amount of logistical stuff that we go over to focus on the substance and theology of our program. We’re going to be more intentional about linking our activities to our theology in the future.
Hockey – there are 3 games this weekend. I’m going to tonight’s game with Carolyn, and tomorrow night’s game with Carolyn, my sister and a friend of hers. Sunday’s game will get skipped – 3 in a weekend is too much.
Ham Radio – I got voted in as a member of the Delaware Valley Radio Association last week. Last weekend I went to their radio “shack” and got an orientation on the building, antennas, and radios. I’m also nearly finished with the ARRL EC-001 Level 1 Amateur Radio Emergency Communication online class. That class will teach me how to be useful in an emergency (like a flood, hurricane, or other disaster). The class is going really well – my mentor told me that I’m the first student out of the 100 or so that he’s worked with who managed to format all 4 sample emergency messages correctly on the first try.
In the Presbyterian world, things have been busy. We’ve had a presbytery approve a lesbian candidate as ready to receive a call to ministry, we got a young adult candidate for General Assembly Moderator (for the non-presby’s, that means roughly “head Presbyterian”). These actions (particularly the first one) have prompted the expected reaction from the conservative wing of the church. Our General Assembly this June will also be considering a complete re-write of the Rules portion of our constitution.
At my own church we have a congregational meeting this Sunday that will consider a change to the bylaws to loosen up the rules on the number of Elders and their term length. This is intended to allow the church to ordain it’s first Elder under age 18 for a term shorter than 3 years (because the youth probably couldn’t serve a full 3 years).
Life is a roller coaster, but in retrospect it’s been more up than down this week.
Happy New Year – a roundup
Here’s what I’ve been up to in the last week or two:
12/17 – day off from work, didn’t do much
12/18 – work
12/19 – work, office Christmas lunch
12/20 – work, delayed by brake failure on the way to work, left early
12/21 – work, got my car back, watched the Trenton Devils win
12/22 – Smith family Christmas celebration (see below)
12/23 – church in the morning, youth group Christmas party in the evening
12/24 – off from work, Presbyterian Christmas service in the evening
12/25 – Catholic Christmas service followed by Brennan family celebration
12/26 – off from work, price new tires
12/27 – off from work, watch Trenton Devils win
12/28 – off from work, watch Trenton Devils lose in shootout
12/29 – home, work on CDs for friends
12/30 – church, then work on CDs for friends
12/31 – work until 3pm, watch Trenton Devils, home for midnight
1/1 – off from work. Sleep.
Does it seem like I didn’t do much? You’re right. I didn’t. This was sabbath/rest time.
Happy New Year! See you in 2008!
Missing God
I’m not seeing God much these days.
One of the questions that the youth director at church asks the students (and adults) is “Where did you see God this week?” Lately I’ve been happy that I haven’t been called out to answer, because I really don’t have a good answer.
I definitely don’t see Him at work. People can’t be depended on to do their own jobs, much less help others. Gossip and backstabbing abound.
At home, things are basically normal. All cylinders are firing, and life is running at a nice constant RPM. Maybe that’s what God is about, but I’m not seeing the traditional view of God when a little extra help is needed.
At church …. hmmpf. For the most part, the church experience has been kind of flat for me lately. I’m not feeling inspired by worship. I’m attending a lot of church meetings which, as we all know, are not generally considered to be the place where people’s best shines through. There are no real beginnings or culminations. It’s just kind of … there.
Life outside of home, work, or church barely exists. Where it does exist (hockey games, ham radio, lawn chores) are locations that do not lend themselves to an experience of God.
The Internet and blogosphere? Please. I think God avoids them like the plague (so to speak – don’t get any ideas). If you want to see people behaving at their worst a lot of the time, participate in discussion forums or blogs.
The one exception is youth group. I do see God in our meetings. I see it in Confirmation class as the youth absorb and reflect beliefs and emotions about God (and consistently impress me). I see it in the camaraderie, laughter, tears (and particularly in reaction to those tears) and community of the Senior High group. Lately there just haven’t been many of these events. Confirmation teaching sessions are only every 2-3 weeks, and the Senior High schedule hasn’t involved me (retreat with no available spots for adult advisor) or has been canceled (Thanksgiving weekend).
Maybe this is just a case of winter blahs. Maybe it’s a bit of burning the candle at too many ends. I dunno. I’m just not seeing God in my life all that often.
I hope He comes back soon.
We were looking for God, and we found Dog
Last night’s youth group meeting went rather well. We had a discussion on mission trips and potential destinations. It took a very theological turn somewhere in the middle and we ended up in 3 minutes or less with questions about repentance, Heaven, Hell, and whether or not God cares what we believe. We’re looking at planning Theology on Tap Junior Edition (or Root Beer Edition) as a result of the students’ hunger to talk about weighty topics.
After the meeting everybody went out to the parking lot. We discovered a small dog with a leash attached to his/her collar but no owner. Also no tag (please, even if the dog is chipped put a tag on the collar!). The dog was immediately loved to near-death. After the youth left, I called the local police asking if a dog had been reported missing. After I gave the description, the dispatcher gave me a perfect description of the dog’s collar and leash. He said he’d send the owners to us. I left the Youth Director standing at the curb with the dog waiting for the owner. I hope he/she got picked up OK.
Makes you wonder. Maybe this was a “least of these” test.
Next week will be fun – we’re doing “Movie in the Graveyard” for Halloween.
Why We Do It
If you ever wonder why youth leaders volunteer several hours per week (at least) to work with a bunch of teenagers, last night’s senior high youth group session provides the answer.
The youth director was very busy this week (Confirmation started yesterday) and didn’t really have time to plan out last night’s meeting. God stepped in.
We had music on at the beginning, and the youth who were there were grooving to it. The youth director tossed a few rhythm instruments around the room and we all jammed to the Beatles for a few minutes. Later he taught us a few songs of faith from foreign lands, and the youth loved it.
For the rest of the meeting, we used M&M’s to talk about what happened in the last week. Red was how you experienced love, Yellow was a joy, Brown was something bad that happened, Blue was when you were sad, Orange was when you saw God, etc. This ultimately brought out some difficult issues that some of the youth were dealing with. What was most heartening to me was that when this happened, other youth jumped in to help the youth in tears before the adult advisors could. Because of our covenants the group provided the safe space required to work through the emotions.
The youth director said that this was by far the best evening he’d had since he started working here over a year ago. It was decidedly the best that I’ve had. THIS is what youth ministry is about.
Good Weekend
I’m tired, but happy.
Friday evening I headed out to church to be the 2nd wave driver for the Sr. High retreat. There were a few youth who played football who needed to leave later than the 6pm departure time. I got there at 6:15, and the first wave in the big van didn’t leave until 6:30. Ultimately we all got to camp and settled in about 9pm.
We headed out to the waterfront and held a campfire, complete with singing and S’mores. I’m not usually a big fan of s’mores (I prefer to eat the components separately), but I had one anyway so that the vegetarian youth could roast a marshmallow (they contain gelatin, you know). After that we finally got to bed around midnight.
The next morning was quiet. After breakfast, we headed into the woods and did a trust/togetherness exercise that involved walking along a rope strung between trees with your eyes closed. It was done alone, then with a guide, then alone again. It’s sort of a “walking with Jesus” exercise. After that we had a talk about when God is and is not present in your life and the youth got into some pretty heavy topics. I was very impressed with the way that this group handled people’s difficult times without making fun – that’s pretty rare in this age group.
The rest of the morning was “free” time. A group played football in the meadow while others rested in the lodge. We ended the morning with a game of “Have you ever….” Jenga. This uses the book “Have you Ever …?” along with a Jenga game with the tiles numbered (by hand). Each participant pulls a tile out of the stack, places it on top, and the number on the tile is used to find a numbered question in the book. If tiles are recycled you just add 100, 200, etc. to the tile number. We got the stack up to 29 levels before it fell. (The record is 40 plus two tiles.)
We had lunch, and then headed home.
This was an incredibly low-key and relaxed retreat for Senior Highs. We had no serious problems with behavior and even though we had a gender split of 7 boys and 1 girl, the girl did fine. I came home exhausted but I had a great time. This was also the first time that I felt that I really bonded with the youth. I was a bit worried about that – I missed the mission trip in the summer and was worried about being “outside”.
Sunday was another church-packed day. The morning service included an introduction of our 3 seminary interns (with CAKE at the Fellowship Hour). After Fellowship time, Temple Micah invited us to join them in the sukkah that they’d built on the front lawn of the manse. There was also the 2nd half of an adult forum series on Presbyterian beliefs that I attended (tough choice, but I’d already done the homework for the forum). (Discussion for another post – what the heck are we doing listing people’s pledges by size for comparison when we’re doing Consecration Sunday that is supposedly NOT about the numbers?)
At the end of the adult forum I got recruited to usher at the afternoon Jazz Vespers service, which brought me back to church after a 2 hour rest. The music was provided by Presbybop, a jazz quartet founded by Presbyterian clergy. The service was attended by about 130 people, and was wonderful. Presbybop has taken some traditional hymns and jazzed them up while retaining the proper feeling and words. We sang two of those, and other music was included. Rev. Bill Carter did the homily. The service was based on the Book of Common Worship’s “Evening Prayer” order of worship – appropriate to the setting sun. The congregation was energized by the service.
After the service, dinner was provided by the choir. Excellent food was catered from Chuckles with dessert from church members and the leftovers from Fellowship Hour in the morning. Carolyn and I sat with the youth group for dinner, and met Rev. Karen Hernandez-Granzen of Westminster Presbyterian Church in Trenton.
After dinner we headed back to the sanctuary for a one-set concert by Presbybop. Folks, these guys know their jazz. You can find them on iTunes, and their CDs are for sale at CDBaby.com. The congregation was brought to their feet at the end for a standing ovation (and we did get an encore). It was hysterical to see the upright and sometimes elderly Presbyterians swaying and nodding their heads to the wonderful jazz. I saw one guy air drumming using the pens from the prayer card racks in the pews.
I’m still short on sleep, but it was a truly wonderful weekend.
Meetings and trip
It’s been another busy week in Mark-land.
Sunday we had the real Sr. High youth group kickoff session. We had fun, got introduced to each other, played around, and ate ice cream. It’s a good group of youth including not one but TWO exchange students.
Monday evening we had the first meeting of the Welcome and Outreach Task Force that I am co-chairing. As I’ve said before our charter is to study visitors, inactive members and the local community and then to make recommendations on what the church could do to create an atmosphere of hospitality and invitation. It was a good meeting – mainly kept to start up tasks and ideas. We have two challenges. First is scheduling meetings – the folks on the team are really busy and it’s hard to find a 1.5 hour time slot that works for everybody. Fortunately I discovered (after some hints from the pastor and another team member) Meet-O-Matic. That should help. The second challenge is that we have one team member who has no Internet access (or inclination to get access). We’ve appointed a team member to be that member’s “Internet buddy”, and we’ve covenanted not to make any decisions via e-mail without getting her input.
The team is very diverse (as diverse as we could get given the congregation’s demographics). We have people who have only been attending our church since last spring and people who have been members for over 25 years. We have a pretty good age spread, and the gender balance is good. The skills and interests of the group members are fairly well balanced, too.
One interesting concept that came from this meeting is the definition of our “mission field” – the land area that we are targeting. The traditional idea was that we serve a 3 mile radius from the church building. However, over 1/2 of the team lives outside of that radius. This means (by extrapolation – and it does work out that way) that a significant percentage of the church membership drives past another Presbyterian church or three (not to mention other denominations) to get to our church. We are thinking that we might have two tiers – the 3-mile “local” tier and a larger area. We decided to add “active members outside the 3-mile radius” to the list of groups studied to see what draws them to drive a distance to be part of our community. We’re also going to be mapping the households using software yet to be determined (Google Maps?).
So that was Monday evening. Did I get a break Tuesday evening? No. Carolyn decided that this was the week to re-seal the driveway while it is still warm enough. (It did need it) So I got home Tuesday evening and it took the two of us just about 1 hour to put a coat on the driveway. She was nice to me Wednesday evening and put the 2nd coat on herself (a thinner coat). I just had to cook dinner.
Tonight is laundry, and then Friday evening I’m going with the Sr. Highs up to Camp Johnsonburg for a quick overnight retreat. We’ll be home about 3pm on Saturday – just in time to see Rutgers play Maryland (my brother’s alma mater) in football.
Sunday I’ll have church in the morning. I’m attending an adult forum on what makes Presbyterians different from other denominations. I have homework to do – matching the names, dates, and a short summary of the Confessions. Sunday evening the church is doing the first ever Jazz Vespers. The youth are attending together, and I’m probably going to bring Carolyn along too.
Who was it that said “You can sleep when you’re dead.”?
Web Stuff
Presbyterian Bloggers Join | List | Previous | Next | Random | Previous 5 | Next 5 | Skip Previous | Skip Next
Recent Comments
- on A Sad Story
- An early friend
on A Sad Story - on A Sad Story
- on A Sad Story
- on PC(USA) – if we don’t divide, how do we stop fighting?